WDYT of this? (fat shaming?)

[vludmilla]

As a human being (who also happens to be a lifelong thin person), I find it appalling. As a psychologist, I find it utterly damaging. As a PP mentioned, shaming people who are overweight is more likely to increase their overeating, not decrease it.

[kijip]

Great idea! Shaming and bullying always solves problems.

On a more serious note, if shame and guilt actually worked for limiting obesity, we should have a nation with only thin people by now. In what area of America are fat people not already shamed?

[StantonHyde]

OK, I am totally against shaming. Bad, ineffective, damaging idea.

But here is an interesting observation--DH's family is all from the midwest--corn fed etc. Every single one of them is obese. They don't exercise, they eat crap and they eat a lot of it. That is a norm to them. Just like supersizes have become a new norm. And being fat is a norm to them. Think about it, the "fat lady" in the circus used to weigh 300 lbs, that's nothing now. I have been in the grocery store in the soda section when a woman walked up and said "the doctor says I can't have any of this because I just got diagnosed as a diabetic. I don't care, I'm getting it anyway." And she proceeds to put 6 different kinds of sugar soda in her cart. So yes, doctors do tell people to lose weight but they don't always listen. I agree, its not like someone who is fat hasn't heard that they need to lose weight.

We need to change portion sizes and educate people on nutrition so that huge portions of poor nutrient food is seen as what it is--not something desirable to be eaten. And their kids are all obese. So while the adults might not excel on a healthy eating regimen, the bottom line is that if they ate healthy foods and exercised they would set an example for their kids and thus their children wouldn't start out life obese.

I will believe it is in MIL's genes when she quits eating copious amounts of crap and takes accountability for her behavior.

I am a recovering compulsive over eater. I still use eating as a coping mechanism when I am stressed or depressed. It's different than it used to be for sure. So I get that it is hard to change behavior--it took me many years in therapy. But I did it. I am not super thin. My BMI is just under 25. I love to exercise and that saves me. But I take accountability for my behavior and I educate myself on nutrition. Shaming does not work. In fact it just sets a compulsive over eater up to eat more!!!

[sweetsue98]

Being fat is already a social stigma and some other cultures (east asian), already openly chastise fat ppl and while it may help with ppl not wanting to become fat, the societies have become very superficial and judging ppl purely based on looks. When I studied abroad one summer in taiwan, I learned to DREAD going shopping for clothes. The dept store and other clothing workers would just openly say, "you american girls are all so fat." Now, it would be one thing if it were true, but they were also calling my friends who were size 4 fat! I always wondered how anyone who wasn't a size 2 or under was able to find clothes there.

I'd think that promoting exercise and a cleaner diet would help more in a positive tone. I am always surprised by how ignorant ppl are about nutrition. One of the moms in our moms group told me yesterday that she thinks that chicken nuggets are healthy (like conventional ones frozen ones from the supermarket, not the homemade kind). I know a lot of other ppl who have some odd ideas about what is nutritious, etc.. I think that the problem stems with the crappy school lunches and generations of ppl thinking that it's healthy to eat that way, and ppl eating too much processed foods. Exercise is another thing, but I think that our society could make a bigger difference promoting nutrition education first. I'm always surprised that so little has been done to improve school lunches. Teaching kids early on what is healthy and what isn't can make a huge difference. If you wait until they are adults to try to teach them that stuff, it's too late and really hard to change habits if the person isn't that excited about it.

When I was in Taiwan and china, people would openly gawk at me because I was fat according to their standard. I was fat but probably could lose a few pounds. It didn't incentivize me to lose wight.

[JElaineB]

OK, I am totally against shaming. Bad, ineffective, damaging idea.

But here is an interesting observation--DH's family is all from the midwest--corn fed etc. Every single one of them is obese. They don't exercise, they eat crap and they eat a lot of it. That is a norm to them. Just like supersizes have become a new norm. And being fat is a norm to them. Think about it, the "fat lady" in the circus used to weigh 300 lbs, that's nothing now. I have been in the grocery store in the soda section when a woman walked up and said "the doctor says I can't have any of this because I just got diagnosed as a diabetic. I don't care, I'm getting it anyway." And she proceeds to put 6 different kinds of sugar soda in her cart. So yes, doctors do tell people to lose weight but they don't always listen. I agree, its not like someone who is fat hasn't heard that they need to lose weight.

We need to change portion sizes and educate people on nutrition so that huge portions of poor nutrient food is seen as what it is--not something desirable to be eaten. And their kids are all obese. So while the adults might not excel on a healthy eating regimen, the bottom line is that if they ate healthy foods and exercised they would set an example for their kids and thus their children wouldn't start out life obese.

I will believe it is in MIL's genes when she quits eating copious amounts of crap and takes accountability for her behavior.

I am a recovering compulsive over eater. I still use eating as a coping mechanism when I am stressed or depressed. It's different than it used to be for sure. So I get that it is hard to change behavior--it took me many years in therapy. But I did it. I am not super thin. My BMI is just under 25. I love to exercise and that saves me. But I take accountability for my behavior and I educate myself on nutrition. Shaming does not work. In fact it just sets a compulsive over eater up to eat more!!!

I think there is a point that you are missing is that sugar is an addictive substance for many people. For those people it acts as a drug in the body and brain, stimulating pleasure centers. And many other carbohydrate-rich foods break down into sugar in the body as well, including wheat, rice and other grains. It's great you overcame your issues but clearly it was difficult and I think you need to cut some slack to people who don't have any comprehension that their drive to eat what they eat is caused by a biological need for an addictive substance.

[wellyes]

I think there is a point that you are missing is that sugar is an addictive substance for many people. For those people it acts as a drug in the body and brain, stimulating pleasure centers. And many other carbohydrate-rich foods break down into sugar in the body as well, including wheat, rice and other grains. It's great you overcame your issues but clearly it was difficult and I think you need to cut some slack to people who don't have any comprehension that their drive to eat what they eat is caused by a biological need for an addictive substance.

Well, of course there are biological reasons. And of course people do it because it makes them feel good in ways beyond how food tastes. I am reminded of that quote from Trainspotting where Ewan McGregor's herion addict character talks about how everyone thinks of the misery and death but the thing is, they don't get the pleasure of it. Not because they are stupid. And goes on to try to make the case that it feels so good, it's worth it.

I think there is a real problem, but, what we need are solutions that aren't focused on how much each individual who is obese is a horrible person. We need to reverse government policies that encourage production of cheap sugars and refined grains. Corn wheat soy. We've made those foods so cheap that it is only logical they are the primary source of calories, both at home and in places like school lunches. Blaming individual's 'choice' to eat the food that is delicious, satisfying, cheap and absolutely everywhere is no solution, and shaming them for is absurd. I think it would put us further down the problem of not acknowledging the choices that our government makes with our tax dollars.

[anonomom]

As a fat person, I find stuff like this amusing. Don't thinner people get yet that fat people are shamed every single day, in dozens of little ways? Like the doctor who assumed the reason his doppler couldn't find DS's heartbeat when I was pregnant was because I was fat, when really the device just needed new batteries. Or the near-constant barrage of "fat is evil" stories in magazines, newspapers and on TV. Or the fact that many retailers, if they sell plus-sized clothing at all, will only sell it online lest fat people be seen in their b&m stores. And let's not forget the myriad diet plans, exercise "miracles" and other doodads that we're supposed to spend money on in the vain hope that something will make us skinny.

I know I can't speak for every fat person out there, but I can speak for myself when I say I have tried repeatedly to lose weight, starting when I was a 135-lb college student (I'm 5'4). I know about portion sizes and whole foods and sugar addiction and eating "clean." And yet I've ended up obese. I'll admit that now I eat what I want to and I do not exercise near as much as I need to. But I've had years where I counted every calorie and worked out 3-4x a week and still gained weight. So I'm not torturing myself anymore. And no amount of external shaming is going to magically change that.

[Melaine]

I think it's a stupid idea and if it worked then it already would have worked. I do think that the comparison to smoking is interesting, but flawed. I would be fine, for example (and perhaps support) campaigns showing the "gross-ness" of certain foods, like the "gross-ness" of cigarettes. Not weight, but food choices. A fat person should not be ashamed, but someone who consistently makes poor nutritional choices could be better educated. We need to undo the damage done by so much misinformation about diet.

[JElaineB]

Well, of course there are biological reasons. And of course people do it because it makes them feel good in ways beyond how food tastes. I am reminded of that quote from Trainspotting where Ewan McGregor's herion addict character talks about how everyone thinks of the misery and death but the thing is, they don't get the pleasure of it. Not because they are stupid. And goes on to try to make the case that it feels so good, it's worth it.

I think there is a real problem, but, what we need are solutions that aren't focused on how much each individual who is obese is a horrible person. We need to reverse government policies that encourage production of cheap sugars and refined grains. Corn wheat soy. We've made those foods so cheap that it is only logical they are the primary source of calories, both at home and in places like school lunches. Blaming individual's 'choice' to eat the food that is delicious, satisfying, cheap and absolutely everywhere is no solution, and shaming them for is absurd. I think it would put us further down the problem of not acknowledging the choices that our government makes with our tax dollars.

I agree completely with your second paragraph. I posted quickly last night, but I also meant to point out it's not just about "pleasure centers". Eating carbohydrates for carbohydrate-sensitive people also increases insulin production, generally disproportionally to consumption. Insulin clears out nutrients from the bloood, leading to increased hunger. For these people, the act of eating can actually make them hungrier! A great book on this subject is Gary Taubes' Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It.

I agree with your analogy to heroin addiction, but the example I am thinking of is one of those "addiction" shows I saw recently on TV, where the woman was a 50ish year old prostitute, who was a herion and meth addict. She needed the herion fix to feel normal. Her body could not function without it. She didn't even particularly like it anymore. The meth was what she took for pleasure.

[JElaineB]

I think it's a stupid idea and if it worked then it already would have worked. I do think that the comparison to smoking is interesting, but flawed. I would be fine, for example (and perhaps support) campaigns showing the "gross-ness" of certain foods, like the "gross-ness" of cigarettes. Not weight, but food choices. A fat person should not be ashamed, but someone who consistently makes poor nutritional choices could be better educated. We need to undo the damage done by so much misinformation about diet.

I agree, many people have talked about "poor nutrition choices" in this thread, but who will make that decision about what is a poor nutrition choice? The government has had it wrong for years. Sugar/refined carbohydrates are the problem, yet so many are still harping on the evils of fat. Fat is the ONLY macronutrient that does not cause insulin to be released by the body. And insulin is what causes fat to be stored in the body. Therefore carbs, and in some people even too much protein, can make a person fat. The public has a long way to go in understanding this.

ETA: Not all fats are good. Trans fats should be completey banned. But there are many good fats (coconut oil, olive oil, animal fats especially).