Posted: March 20, 1998
Alan & Denise,
Wanted to let you know that I just responded to an e-mail from a couple who
thought they were sending a message to you. Don't worry, it wasn't personal.
They had supposedly read your book ("very interesting and helpful") and
wanted information about a wetland survey for property they recently
purchased - talk about the cart before the horse. Anyway, I answered their
request and provided them with both your e-mail address and your URL.
I recently started a custom home building Web site. Among other
information, we provide reviews of home building books. As a residential
builder for over 21 years, the last 12 or so building luxury custom homes,
you probably already have an idea what I thought of "Your New House". The
funny thing is, even though I didn't enjoy reading your book, I now
recommend it to everyone who visits our site. Apparently, that is why I was
mistaken for you.
By the way, did you really own a Dalmatian? I had one years ago; great dog!
Regards,
Greg Susman greg@b4ubuild.com
President, B4UBUILD.COM http://www.b4ubuild.com
PS - Last week someone thought I was Norm Abrams.
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Alan & Denise, Thanks for taking the time to respond, and yes, our site is B4UBUILD.COM http://www.b4ubuild.com After building custom homes for so long, and hearing from clients how the customer is always right, not to mention my other favorite consumer expression, "for what I am paying for this...", I needed a break. So, I started a Web site about custom home building that will, hopefully, help consumers and builders better prepare for the experience. I am trying to provide viewpoints from both sides of the process. Yes, there are idiots and scam artists in the building profession, some even worse than you describe in your book. However, there are some pretty unscrupulous clients out there as well. I don't believe the home building business has a larger percentage of bad apples than any other business, but it is often portrayed that way. When someone decides to invest so much time and money in a project, emotions can run very high - on both sides. In fact, reputable builders may actually have more to loose than consumers. A client who has signed an all inclusive custom home contract, and doesn't make changes (ha), knows he is spending 1.4 million dollars for his new home, and normally has a lender looking out for their investment. The builder hopes he thought of everything and figured his costs correctly so he doesn't loose his assets. Oh well, enough said. You are both obviously smart enough to see both sides of the situation and to capitalize on the side with the most sympathy. While reading your book really frustrated me at times, mostly because a lot of people that read it probably take everything literally, you are to be commended for your accomplishments. Take care and good luck! Regards, Greg Susman greg@b4ubuild.com President, B4UBUILD.COM http://www.b4ubuild.com
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Hi, Thanks for sending me a copy of Your New House. I'm in the process of buying a house right now, and it's just been invaluable to me. I would like to ask you for a favor. I noticed on page 250 that you mentioned Kate Gladchun's book and the Wholesale By Mail catalog as good sources for home furnishings bargains. I would appreciate it if you would consider adding The Insider's Guide To Buying Home Furnishings to that list. It is available in bookstores nationwide now (Barnes & Noble, Media Play, B. Dalton, Borders, etc.), as well as through our 800#. Thanks! Kimberly Causey, author The Insider's Guide To Buying Home Furnishings
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Just a quick note to tell you what a great educational book "Your New House" has been for us. I read it cover to cover. I still have lots of questions unanswered, but at least now I know how complex the process of building a home is. A couple of suggestions: Add more information about the process of buying a lot. Here in Mass there are a lot of wetlands and issues that arise from having them in your property. Also, talk about the soil tests in more detail, what is good to have in a lot or things you want to avoid. Another thing you definitely want to do before your next edition is to do a search of your book for the contraction "it's" and make sure it is used correctly. There are several cases where it is being used incorrectly. You don't want your readers to think that you didn't do a good job of picking an editor, would you? :=) Thanks again for a great book. Roger ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <cruz@xyplex.com> Received: from relay31.mail.aol.com (relay31.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.31]) by air18.mail.aol.com (v40.2) with SMTP; Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:36:41 -0500
I am spending the weekend with my girlfriend and on her bookshelf was your book. Since I just purchased a Richmond American home and am very unhappy, I preceded to read the book to find out what I should have known several months ago. I thought I was equipped because instead of using their on-site agent, I had my own who came highly recommended. I failed to pick up his subtle hints. He was in the only ethical way he could encouraging me not to buy from Richmond American homes. At the end of last year, I believe since my house was the nearest house to being completed (It should have been completed the end of January), the builder decided to rush/slap up my house and tried to force me to move in by their year-end closing date. Needless to say my agent was furious. The last time we had spoken to the builder superintendent, he was going to call us to schedule a walk thru before the walls went up. At this time period, my agent who is well versed in the construction industry, informed us that it would be another 4-6 weeks before our house would be completed. Needless to say, the builder wanted to complete our house in two weeks time and wanted us to take occupancy. We did not settle in December. Too many things had not been done and the workmanship was shoddy. However, because of the situation that we were in, my Mom who was taking over our old house had been living with us since November and we were supposed to be in our new home by the end of January and it was crowded so in January we settled on the new house. Am I stuck with a poor quality house. My thoughts are to plan to be out in 5 years. Do I have any other recourse?? New house definitely gone sour. Of course I very heavily highlighted the section on page 4 on your book, "New construction" does not mean "soundly constructed." High price does not mean high quality. We paid $235,000 for our house and I am sure we have cheap windows, we definitely have a lousy paint job and the roofing??? Sad buyer. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <davis@fr.com> Received: from relay13.mail.aol.com (relay13.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.13]) by air12.mail.aol.com (v40.2) with SMTP; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:45:26 -0500
I just purchased and read your book "Your New House" today, and found it filled with excellent and useful information. However, I'd like to bring your attention to a few errors and omissions I found within.
The most serious- and potentially the most dangerous- I found on page #128 under "Weakening the Floor Joists". In it, you state that subs should drill holes near the top of a joist. Actually, a joist (unlike other load-bearing members such as a stud) experiences forces of both compression and tension. Whether a hole near the top is better than one near the bottom depends on the exact force composition *in that position* of the joist...something that is impractical to calculate. The solution? Always drill in the exact center of a joist, where a hole up to 25% of the joist diameter will cause only trivial reduction in its load-bearing capacity. The worst positioning for a utility hole is the extreme case where the hole diameter intersects the joist edge--i.e. a 'notch'-- be it at top or bottom.
Another, somewhat more subjective error, related to 2x6 stud construction, 24" O.C. You imply that this is shoddy construction, but in fact it provides a better solution than 16" OC construction by reducing insulation breaks and air infiltration through the wall. The result is a lower adjusted R-value. 2x4 exterior wall framing requires 16" OC construction simply because of the lower load-bearing capacity of a 2x4 stud. 2x6's should only be used 16" OC when required due to live load determination.
A small point on insulation. Page #219 claims that R-19 fiberglass batts compressed into a 2x4-framed wall 'degrades' insulation quality. While compressing insulation does reduce its R-value, a standard R-19 batt compressed down to 3.5" has an R-value of approximately 14, slightly higher than the standard R-13 batt used in 2x4 construction. The claim that "air circulation" is neccesary for proper insulation is also incorrect; transverse circulation has no effect, radial circulation actually increases heat flow. It is the *trapped* air in fiberglass-- not circulating air- that provides its insulating qualities.
Finally one small omission; a claim that marble countertops are generally unsuitable for kitchens. Although staining due to grease absorption and even pitting due to acidic foods is a problem, most marbles can be protected easily with the application of a polymer sealant.
Other than that, I am quite pleased with the book. Thanks, and I hope the above information is to your interest.
--
Mike Asher
masher@dbtech.net
masher@att.com
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Dear Mr. and Mrs. Fields, I was wondering if during your research on building a new home, you have come across any 'rules of thumb' regarding the proportionate costs of different items in the 'typical' new house? A similar rule of thumb is the one that states that "the construction cost should be about 75% of the total cost, lot plus construction." That rule was very helpful in our initial narrowing down of the available land where we want to build. I'm looking for a similar rule of thumb that says how much, as a percent of the construction cost, should go towards such things as: Floor coverings Windows Appliances Cabinets Countertops Lighting Interior trim Doors And so on. I realize that any information you might give me on this topic would be only an estimate (or maybe average or typical), and I'll take the information with the appropriate grain of salt. I'm hoping that having this information up front will allow us to set some 'slightly flexible' budgets for the above items right from the beginning. This could potentially save us a lot of time in the whole process, and it will keep us from being talked into a granite entryway or solid surface countertops if we really can't afford it. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. On another note, I'd like to tell you about our experience trying to buy the land. It has not been a good ride so far. First of all, the buyers brokers we hired have been terrible. Everything sounded fine when we hired them, well, hired HIM. The guy we talked to sounded knowledgeable and helpful. Unfortunately, after we hired him, he did nothing but try to talk us into buying an existing home instead of a vacant lot. I think he just wanted the commission of a home sale instead of a vacant lot sale, figuring that it will take him the same amount of time and effort either way. He told us that only rich people build houses this way, we don't have the budget or expertise, its going to take too long, blah blah blah. He even had his architect friends and banker friends call us to tell us we are doing this all wrong. Well, we did our own homework and knew that what we were doing was just fine, so it just bothered me that he wasn't spending his time looking for the lot. We eventually put our foot down and told him to just find the damn lot! So, what does he do? He has his wife (who barely speaks English let along knows a darn thing about vacant land) handle our account. She spends about 25 seconds on the MLS and prints up every listed lot in the area we said we were interested in. She then drove out to our place to take us around looking at these lots. She had NO IDEA where any of the lots even were! It was up to me, in the passenger seat, to navigate after she tells me the address and some basic directions. She wasted an entire day bumbling around trying to find land that turned out to be horrible. We were showed land that was zoned industrial, we were showed land with dimensions like "1 foot by 2000 feet", land that required a well and septic (which we told her was not acceptable to us), too expensive, too cheap, etc. Finally, I told her to just give me the MLS listing so I could take a look at it myself. And to my surprise, a lot of information was right on there that could have saved us all this time, but she didn't know how to read anything on the printout but the address and directions! We looked over the rest of it ourselves and found some good lots, including the one we are now in the process of purchasing. We could have saved ourselves a lot of anguish if we had asked up front how many vacant lots they had found for people, because the answer of zero would have scared us away. They specialize in finding houses for people. We also should have insisted in dealing only with the person we initially spoke too, not his bumbling wife. In the end, we will get the lot we really like, and they will get a 3% commission for doing nothing but printing up the entire MLS listing for the area we asked for and wasting a lot our time. What a racket! Oh, in our agreement with our buyers broker, we agreed to let them put a sign on our lot after the house is done basically advertising for them. If they actually put that sign on our lot, I'm going to put a much bigger sign right in front of it saying I would never recommend them to anybody. Thanks again for the great book. Sincerely, Walt Gorczowski ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <walt.gorczowski@sspi.com> Received: from relay18.mail.aol.com (relay18.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.18]) by air06.mail.aol.com (v38.1) with SMTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:15:21 1900
Walt
Thanks for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE.
Well, that's a good question. We have not seen any specific cost estimates that say cabinets should be X% of a new home cost, etc--I think the reason why is that percentage would vary significantly depending on the type of house (starter, move-up, luxury).
That said, I believe the National Association of Home Builders has several publications on cost estimating, which might provide some general guidelines. Call them at 800-223-2665 for a catalog of their publications.
Thanks for the experience you had with that realtor--yep, the number #1 complaint we get about all real estate agents has to be incompetence. And that was a good example. If it's okay with you, we forwarded your email to a reporter with the Wall Street Journal who's doing a story about this topic. If you don't want to talk with her, that's fine--but we thought it was a good example for other consumers.
Best wishes,
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
I recently went to the public library and checked out 12 books on building houses. I liked yours the best so I went out and bought a copy. Great book! I'm in the process (the contract is not final yet) of buying a "free market lot" ($55,000) on the outer banks of N.C. The lot (100' X 200') is basically all sand about 800' from the ocean. Virtually all lots located on the outer banks near the ocean require a certain amount of fill. The houses are built on pilings. This would be another excepton of building a house on fill dirt (your book page 80). The county health department did a lot evaluation which indicates I need 36" of fill (about $9,000) over most of the lot (to make suitable for a septic system). I had a builder look at the lot (as your book recommends), and he says I need about $22,000 worth of fill! Big difference! I've decided to have a second builder look at the lot before I finalize the contract. Do you have any other suggestions? Mike Fairfax, VA ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <AMM1948@prodigy.net> Received: from relay03a.mail.aol.com (relay03a.mail.aol.com [172.31.160.3]) by air05a.mail.aol.com (v38.1) with SMTP; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:04:36 1900
I would like any information or resources you can refer, concerning DeGeorge Home Alliance, Inc. I have received a video tape and literature from them, but would like some independent information. Evidently they were previously named Mills Homes. They offer 90% of value of land and 100% materials and labor for building the house. However, you must act as your own General Contractor, handling such items as collecting bids, notifying DeGeorge when to pay for items completed, etc. Please have someone on your staff either e-mail me at hdillon@mncppc.state.md.us, telephone me at 301-454-1696 OR write me at the following address: Heide Dillon; 12708 Heidi Marie Court; Upper Marlboro, MD 20774. Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Heide Dillon ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <hdillon@mncppc.state.md.us>
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Hi! I've just gotten your book and find it tremendously helpful--thank
you!! But I'm confused about the "$8100 Taxi Ride Scam." You state that a
builder has included in his price a 6% commission for realtors, and that
when buying without an agent, you should not pay this commission
(obviously). But when I casually call agents' offices around town asking
what commission agents make from builders, they state that they recieve a
3% co-op and not 6%. Are they not telling me the whole story? Does this
commission vary from state to state (I'm in FL)? Did I ask the wrong
question? My husband and I are getting ready to talk to a builder and I
want to be sure I've got my information straight--I don't want to ask them
to take off 6% when they only pay 3%. Please help me understand this
better-Thanks! Mollie Garcia
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Mollie
Hi! Thanks for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE--glad you found it helpful.
That's a good question. Let us clarify this:
When a builder lists a home for sale with a realtor, he agrees to pay a 6% commission. Half goes to the "listing" broker and the other half (3%) goes to the "selling" broker, that is the agent who works with you. That's the 3% co-op the agent is talking about.
Hence, if you approach a builder who has NOT listed a particular home yet with a realtor, the builder would save 6% on commissions (and hence you could negotiate for that as a concession). However, if the home is ALREADY listed with an agent, the maximum savings the builder would get is 3% (assuming you did NOT use an agent).
Does that help? Or did we confuse you more? :)
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
Dear Alan and Denise Thank you for your quick response and yes it does help tremendously. But just one more clarification: does this also apply to proposed construction and not only to "already built" stuff (specs, etc)? In other words, if I am going in to negotiate a deal for the construction of a home, I can use this sales commission card to either reduce the sales price, or, as you state in your book, use it to do the "free upgrade dance". There doesn't have to be an existing home to negotiate the 6% off, right? Thanks so much for your patience and advice! Mollie ---------- ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <AMDG2@worldnet.att.net>
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Mollie
Well, that's a good question--I'm not sure there is an answer. If the builder already has an agreement with a realtor to list all his houses in a particular development (built or not built yet), then the most you could probalby negotiate is 3%. On the other hand, builders sometimes wait until the home is somewhat constructed before listing it--if you approach them before they list with a real estate agent, there might be the 6%.
I suppose the only way you can figure this out is to ask the builder.
Does that help?
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
My wife and I just read "Your New House" and we thought it was very funny as well as very helpful. We keep quoting funny phrases from the book and we have recommended the book to several people. We have one question which does not seem to be covered in any book that we can find. Do builders expect buyers to negotiate after they have given a quote to build a house? For example, if the builder estimates our house plan to be $200,000, does he expect that we will come back and say "We'll hire you if you will build that house for $190,000." ? I think advice on this subject would be very helpful. We would hate to pay the first price the builder offers if he has "padded" it for negotiation. Thanks Very Much, Patrick and Jeri Whitehill
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Patrick & Jeri
Hi! Thanks for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE. Glad you found it helpful!
Well, that's a good quesiton. As with most things in life, ANYTHING is negotiable. That said, I don't think builders intentionally pad a bid, expecting you to talk them down. They should be giving it their best shot, but there's nothing wrong with you asking if they can do it for less. (Perhaps 5% to 10% less, but not more or you might get thrown out of their office!).
Another strategy: ask them what "changes" or "options" you can look at that would lower the bid. That's a subtle way of asking for a lower price, without being obnoxious. Then, the builder might say, well, if you go with this slightly less expensive roofing shingle, you could save $XXXX dollars, etc.
How "flexible" a builder will be will depend largely on how hot or cold the real estate market is in your town. If the builders are swamped with work, you can probalby forget getting much of a deal (but it doesn't hurt to ask). Meanwhile, if they are begging for jobs, expect for flexbility.
Does that help?
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
January 17, 1998 Dear Alan and Denise, We recently purchased your book entitled "Your New Home". We found your book helpful and we read it with much interest since we are living through a home building nightmare as explained below. In April 1995, we entered into a contract with an Idaho Falls, ID architect, Guy M. Robertson, to design a home for us to be constructed in Jackson Hole (Teton County), WY. Mr. Robertson completed the design and plans for our home over approximately a three month period and had the plans inspected and stamped by a Wyoming licensed professional engineer, Michael Gregory. In talking with Mr. Robertson, in an attempt to locate a suitable builder to construct our home, Mr. Robertson informed us that he, along with two partners, Jack K. Meikle and Douglas Hadley, owned a construction company called Pinnacle Corporation. After some negotiation, we entered into a contract with Pinnacle Corporation, to construct our home on our lot that we had previously purchased in Jackson Hole. Construction on the home began in mid-August 1995 with a contractual completion date of May 30, 1996. As work progressed on our home, we became concerned about the workmanship and also had considerable difficulties in obtaining from Meikle and Robertson the promised lien waivers confirming payment of the subcontractors. During an unscheduled visit to the home during a warm spell in early February 1996, we noted that the cedar shake roof of the home, which had been installed in late November 1995 was leaking like a sieve throughout the house as the snow on the roof melted. At that time, we contacted the Teton County, Wyoming building inspectors who met with us on the same day at our home. Upon entering the house, the inspectors were amazed that the home had been insulated and the much of the drywall installed, since they told us during a framing inspection in December 1995 that they had placed a "corrections notice" on the home stating that no more work could be done until numerous structural framing defects had been corrected by the builder. The builder had not only did not inform us of the corrections notice, but apparently removed it from the house, and proceeded to insulate and drywall the home without correcting the framing defects. (In addition, when we directly asked the builder prior to this time if the framing inspection had been passed, he told us yes, and explained that he felt from their comments that the Teton County building inspectors were pleased with the quality of the framing in the house.) After consulting our family attorney, we terminated the builder, Pinnacle Corporation, on February 12, 1996. At that point, we contracted with G&S Structural Engineers of Idaho Falls to help us evaluate the structural condition of our house. A licensed professional structural engineer from G&S, Mr. Richard Scheerer, determined that the house was riddled with structural defects including but not limited to grossly undersized beams through out the roof structure, inadequately supported loads throughout the house, lack of rebar in the foundation, lack of foundation elements necessary to support structural loads, and inadequately sized plywood roof sheeting. We at that point contracted with a separate builder to shore up the house and begin corrections. Further evaluation by our new builder after totally removing the insulation and drywall, working with Mr. Scheerer, showed numerous other defects in the house including the lack of a cold roof over sections of the house even though cosmetically the roof had been constructed with fake vents to make it seem like the cold roof was present. It was also discovered that the fireplace was improperly installed, the stairs were not built according to code, and that fiberglass insulation had been stuffed in holes in the roof structure in an attempt to camouflage leaks. Based on these discoveries, our experts recommended complete demolition of the house and any further efforts to fix it were terminated. Our experts also determined that the plans had defects even though they had been stamped by Mr. Gregory, a professional engineer licensed in the states of Idaho and Wyoming. We were told by our experts that Gregory had "sold his stamp" in approving our plans. We also subsequently learned that Robertson, who had portrayed himself to both us and the Teton County building inspectors as an architect and structural engineer is neither. In mid-May 1996 we filed a lawsuit in the Teton County Wyoming District court presided over by Judge Terry Rogers. Pinnacle, Meikle, Robertson, Hadley, and Gregory are named in the suit. We are suing them for $1.2 million and Pinnacle counter sued us for approximately $50 thousand which they said we owed them for unpaid work. The Judge scheduled a court date in October 1997. In the spring of 1997, we filed a motion with the court to dismiss Pinnacle's counter suit against us since we learned that Pinnacle had failed to register as a corporation in Wyoming, and as such, could not take legal action against us in a Wyoming court. Pinnacle filed a separate suit against us and numerous subcontractors in the district court of Bonneville County Idaho. At their request, Judge Rogers stayed our case against them in Wyoming pending the outcome of the case Pinnacle had filed in Idaho. We appealed this decision with the Wyoming Supreme Court who refused to even consider our writ of review. As such, our case in Wyoming stopped completely and we lost our assigned court date in October 1997. In addition, in February 1997, we filed a complaint with the Wyoming State Board of Professional Engineers and they are currently investigating Mr. Gregory's actions as a Wyoming licensed engineer. Upon being served with Pinnacle's complaint against us in Idaho, we immediately filed a motion to quash Pinnacle's case against us in the Bonneville County Idaho district court. This motion was ultimately granted by the presiding judge, Judge Wood, who stated in his decision that Pinnacle's argument to sue us in Idaho was like the story of the man who killed his parents and then begged the court for mercy during his murder trial since he was an orphan. In late 1997, Judge Rogers reactivated our case in Wyoming, but refused to set a court date, saying that the court is extremely busy and that since the first available trial date will be sometime in 1999, there is no point in setting it now. Our attorneys then filed a motion with the Judge asking that a court date be set as soon as possible, and the judged responded to our attorney's by saying "What I would like to know is how in the world you expect me to expedite this case. I have told you repeatedly that my trial schedule is completely booked through calendar year 1998.... There are no other alternatives and your grandstanding and chest pounding is not particularly appreciated." At this point, our case is totally stalled. Nothing is happening. We have no house, the lender on our construction loan, Key Bank, is threatening legal action against us since we can not complete our house and roll our construction loan over to obtain permanent financing. We think the chances of the case coming to trial in 1999 are questionable since our attorneys tell us that Pinnacle will probably wait until right before the scheduled court date and declare bankruptcy. This move will automatically stop the trial and it will probably be another two years after that until Judge Roger sees fit to establish another court date. Any advice or help you can give us would be much appreciated. We have been advised by friends and family that we should give up on the legal system and take our case public since we have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. This seems easier said than done. Do you have any hints on effective ways to attract the news media's attention? Also, the listing of grass root groups on page 249 of your book is helpful. We have been in contact with Lynn Gansert. Do you know of any other such groups that may be operating in the Wyoming/Idaho area? We appreciate you taking the time to read this E-mail and would be grateful for any help you can provide. Our mailing address is 1991 Henryanna Avenue, Idaho Falls, Idaho 83404; our phone is 208-522-5749; our FAX is 208-524-2667, and our E-mail is sma@srv.net. Sincerely, Bill and Lynn Apel ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sma@srv.net>
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January 20, 1998 Alan & Denise, Thanks for your quick response to our note. We'd be happy to give you a call. Are you available any evening this week after 6:00pm MST, or possibly this Thursday or Friday around 11:30am MST? Please feel free to forward information regarding our story to DATELINE or any other similar show that you feel may be interested. If additional information is needed, we'd be happy to provide it. We have considerable written documentation, over 2,000 dated color photographs, and a series of videotapes. Since this was to be our dream home we took photos (about 1,000) while the house was under construction hoping to look back on them someday. After we started to learn of the problems we continued to take photos (about 1,000) and also invested in a video camera. Our videos start at the time we fired the builder and provide documentation of the status of the house as it was left by the builder, and continue on to show many of the repairs that needed to be made to shore the house up so it would not collapse. Some of the videos document our discovery of the "hidden" problems - no cold roof, lack of rebar in the foundation, insulation stuffed in the holes in the roof and then covered with drywall, and undersized beams built out with 2X4's and drywalled to give the appearance of larger beams. Our structural engineer, Richard Scheerer, also explains many of the problems in the house on some of the videos. We also have, as a result of the discovery process, a videotape taken by the builder a few days before we fired him and it shows many of the problems as well. As we write this the house is still standing, although our structural engineer expects the master bedroom eaves to fall at any time under the weight of the snow (Jackson has received about 8 ft of snow since Jan 1). Outside of arranging for a snow plow to clear a path to the house, it can be accessed at any time. We look forward to your response, Bill & Lynn ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sma@srv.net>
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Denise and Alan, Great book! A beacon of light compared to just about all of the other books I've read on the subject! (Most of whom appear to have rephrased each other's less that insightful observations on this process.) Amazing how someone who's giving you the straight scoop stands out so clearly....OK, I'll stop short of forming a fan club and get to the questions: 1. In the book you mentioned that most production builders have a thick manual of specifications that they'd give you if asked.. but no one ever asks for. We were looking seriously at buying a house from a builder here(a company owned by one of the top-10 builders in the country and with a good reputation locally) and asked for specifications beyond the two pages of the standard fixture kind of stuff. Not only didn't they whip out those specs, but wanted to know what I wanted -- so I gave them the list from your book. That, combined with an offer lower than the list price, got the response that maybe we shouldn't buy a house from them if we didn't trust them (and these guys had a waiver of legal rights other than arbitration in the contract -- and had actually lied that they didn't sell below list when a check of county records indicated that quite a number had been discounted). Of course, we didn't. But I wanted to ask you what percentage of production builders actually provide extensive specs and will agree to build to those specs -- without the "builder reserves the right to substitute materials of equal value" disclaimer. There are a number of new subdivisions being built in this area (Williamson Co. - suburb of Nashville, TN) and before I go ruling out the rest that will not provide specs, I wanted to ask you about what percentage of large production builders will actually provide these -- and how hard do you typically have to push to get them. 2. Do you know of any source that evaluates the quality of work of these large productions builders -- the only things I've found just give you their total revenues, etc.? 3. We looked at one inventory house that had been allegedly reduced in price because it was one of the last 2 unsold units in that section of this large planned community and the builder wanted to close it out. My questions are: a) approximately what percentage of the inspection that would be done to a house during construction would not be possible to assess on a completed house? b) in general, how much does it cost to have a house inspected during construction vs. the one-time cost of inspecting a completed house? c) if this house is the last to sell in this area -- does that suggest that there is something wrong about it -- or will be hard to resell for some specific reasons (steep driveway, little backyard, etc. -- although a great hillside view and what look like a lot of upgrades)? 4. In general, there look to be a few advantages to buying an inventory home (especially if discounted from list): you can get some upgrades for free, they will sometimes pay as much as $5,000 towards closing, etc. Assuming you actually like the house, etc., what are the potential downsides to this? 5. In looking at new vs. older houses, the prices are better on the older houses generally. Other than the fact that all the systems on the older house may need replacement sooner, what other factors (other than aesthetics) would be of major concern? Are there any general considerations like construction techniques were better or worse in the 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80"s? Thanks for writing a great book, Chris Murray ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <mtsoi@nash.mindspring.com>
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Chris
Thanks so much for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE. We appreciated your kind words!
Here are some thoughts on your questions:
1. While we don't know the exact % of builders who will show you their specs, our interviews with consumers who have asked indicate a number close to one in two (to two out of three). So, your experience was probalby atypical--but that doesn't mean you won't encounter more closed-lipped builders. As you know, we strongly believe this info is the consumer's right to know--and we think builders who hide it have something to hide themselves. Let us know if you continue to encounter this problem.
2. JD Power & Associates has rated the customer satisifaction with several SoCalifornia builders, but that's it. If you live there, let us know and we'll dig out that results. Unfortunately, no one we're aware of has evaluated the quality level of the large builders.
3a: You're missing about 80% of what an inspector could look at: specifically, foundation backfill, framing, rough-in, etc.
3b: this varies GREATLY depending on where you live, and the size/complexity of the house evaluated. BUT, we'd estimate the average new home would be $800 to $1000 for a FULL series of inspections (as described in our book). The typical one-time inspection of a resale home is $300 to $600.
3c: Yep, I'd assume there was something negative about it if it's the last to sell AND it's been sitting there awhile. Steep driveways are ALWAYS a negative, but some folks will pay extra for that view.
4. The downside of buying an inventory house is you can't see what happened during the actual construction. Drywall covers up the framing/rough-in of plumbing, electrical, etc. And dirt covers the foundation. So, you're relying on the builder's reputation much more than someone who buys that home from scratch (where they can actually SEE the quality or lack thereof as the home is built).
5. Resale houses are always cheaper than new homes (in most cases) because each typically has a bit of "functional obsolencse." That is, an out of date floor plan, kitchen, master bath. If it's just cosmetic, you can fix that. BUT, if significant remodeling must be done (ie, moving walls), you're often talking about spending a TOTAL amount more than a new house is to begin with.
There's no magic date for good construction. Generally, though I would avoid a home built during a community's boom years--that's when houses were probalby built very quick, without regard to quality. Of course, a resale home often gives away much of its secrets--water damage from leaking roof, bad construction might be visible in the attic or basement, etc.
Does that help?
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
We are happy readers of your book YOUR NEW HOUSE and have a question regarding what is touted as the latest technology in pest control: In Wall Pest Control Systems. The system would cost approximately $300-$500 to install at time of construction. Do you have any opinion as to whether the system works well and is worth the cost?
Thank you for your help -- and your book. It is the best book we have found to help us in building our first home.
Ann and Gary Olson
anolson@aol.com
In a message dated 98-01-05 23:29:25 EST, you write:
<< Do you have any additional info on this? Companies that sell it or web sites with more info? >>
The phone books down here in Sarasota, FL have several companies advertising this type of a system. We briefly went on the internet and found this site which has a graphic explaining the system. http://www.american-pest.com/eco/ecolog.htm.
We have also posted a question on a couple of AOL message boards and will see if we get any advice.
Thanks for keeping an eye out at the builders show.
ann & gary olson
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Fields: My partner and I are having a house built and bought your book in anticipation of the event. We've enjoyed the book a lot and found that unfortunately, too much of it is true. At least it makes us laugh. I thought I'd run by a dilemma of sorts and see if you have any suggestions, tips, etc. Naturally we did not abide by all of the suggestions contained in your book, and there are many things I would do differently if I were to build again. I don't want to build again though. Our builder and his wife are in their 70's and are a Mormon couple. They own the land where the house is being built and live there as well. There are about 50 houses in the subdivision, 40 of which they have built. The subdivision looks very good. They will be our fairly close neighbors. They gave us an estimate as to what the house would cost. The contract says that we will pay the estimate and actual costs. I asked about this in the beginning because it worried me but I was reassured that the builder is very frugal with our money. Naturally, this reassurance should not have been enough for me, but I was stepping into a foreign area and probably wanted to accept such reassurance. Our new neighbor just had a house completed by these builders. Their final bill came in at about $13,000 over the estimate. Although we have been saving for this type of event, I don't want to pay that much over the estimate. I just think it's unacceptable. However, our lumber package is already double the estimate. We have expressed concern to them about these actual costs and the amount of the loan we took out, and we received the sort of flip answer that they can always stop work when the money runs out. At this point, we are at the sheet rocking stage. It is difficult to tell how much we really are over the estimate because there was some extra money built into the estimate, but not that much. Now they are telling us that some of the things we wanted to have in this house (and that were included in the original estimate) need to be cut to reduce costs. Our new neighbor, who was told he needed to pay $13,000 over the estimate, negotiated with them and split the difference I think. However, he found discrepancies in the billing and things for which he should not have been billed (i.e., mistakes by the subs). I see some discrepancies but I don't know whether I have quite the positioning he did. Any suggestions as to how to approach this couple, who will be close neighbors, who probably are not out to rip us off or dishonest, but who are very poor at giving estimates and very defensive at receiving any criticism? I don't mind hearing what I should have done differently although I have some ideas about that from having read your book. Thank you, Mary Woodward ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <TresDoris@worldnet.att.net>
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Mary
Thanks so much for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE. We appreciated your kind words about book.
For that reason, we'll resist the urge to say "We told you so" about your situation (just kidding, of course). BUT, seriously, you did sign a very BAD contract with that home builder. As you know, we always recommend doing what's called a fixed price contract when buying a new home--that is, you pay a FIXED price for the house and the builder assumes any risks that his costs rise (trust us, he's building in a cushion to make sure that doesn't happen). That way, the builder has an incentive to make sure those costs don't soar too high.
But you probably already realize this.
While we'd assume the builder is not trying to rip you off, we think this situation is a classic bait and switch. Sure, Mary, we'll build you a home with X features and Z square footage for $XXX price. Unfortunately, our poor ability to estimate costs means we just have to cut some of those features. But you'll still pay us the same amount of money.
To be honest, you are in a weak legal position (we assume). Since you don't own the land, you have two choices:
1. Accept the deal and live with the house with less features (or pay the extra amount of money).
2. Walk away from the deal. The mere threat of this, of course, might convince the builder to negotiate. But, if it's a hot market, the builder may say goodbye and sell it to someone else. So, if you go this route, be prepared to have the builder call your bluff (you should get your deposit back though).
If I were you, tomorrow I would:
1. Call an attorney. You need to have someone experienced with your state's real estate law evaluate your contract--and your options. That doesn't mean you sue the builder, but it certainly will bolster your negotiating positon (if there is one). Specifically, you need to hear about your rights to a deposit refund.
2. Call your lender. I'd explain this situation and see if you can increase your loan amount (and how much). A lender with siginificant construction experience should realize this "stuff" happens. BUT, you may find out you can only qualify for X loan, not X+$13,000. In that case, your contract may allow you to back out of the deal since you were not able to obtain financing--once again, an attorney would be helpful to determine this.
3. Meet face to face with the builder. This doesn't have to be confrontational, but I'd put your foot down. The best course: blame it on your lender. Tell the builder you're okay, but you're lender is going ballistic at the cost overruns. So, you need to have DETAILED updates on how much extra this thing is costing. (read: how bad their estimate was). Hopefully, the builder is NOT best friends with the lender, so you'll have this option open. Insist the builder give you WEEKLY (or bi-weekly) cost updates. Any changes to the deal should be done IN WRITING (that is, if you subtract something from the house, what that's worth, etc.).
4. Watch the project like a hawk. Make sure items delivered to the site are used on YOUR house. Ask the builder to see subcontractors invoices and make sure you are billed for what you got (you'd be surprised at the mistakes). Since you are paying estimate+costs, this is only fair.
We wish we had better advice, but I think you know your back is against the wall. Let us know how this turns out.
best of luck,
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
Alan and Denise: Thank you for your suggestions and reaction. I was sort of expecting it. I do remember looking at the contract at the beginning (before signing), and wondering about the +actual costs deal. I asked about it and they said we could count on them (pep talk), that the builder (husband) was very frugal and careful with our money, that he treated it like it was his own. Then I thought about the fixed price contract, and I felt that if I had brought in a lawyer (you'll laugh when I say I am a lawyer, but it's in employment law) and demanded a fixed price, the whole deal would have been substantially more anyway. But if that was my hunch, I should have gone with the fixed price knowing they could not have built it for the lower price in the first place. I've learned something, but I don't particularly want to build again. I did go and talk to them. We went over all of the estimates and actual costs, line by line, and I brought up all of my concerns as nicely as possible. I think I will ask for the spreadsheet on more of a weekly basis. We are watching like hawks over the construction. Anyway, I believe that we got some things straightened out, and I told them what I could imagine paying over the estimate and what I could not imagine, so we'll see. I did pay attention to the book. You said to save about 10% of the building costs/price, just in case, and I've done that. I just hope it won't all have to go to the builder. I may use the lender tip that you gave me at some point. The lender is not in bed with the builder, although the builder would have been more comfortable if we had used the bank they always work with during construction. We do own the land. We paid that off first. So, I suppose that means we could change builders, but I think it would cost me even more at this stage. Anyway, I appreciate your advice and that you wrote me. I will continue to pour over your book. It's amazing how much falls (sinks) into place as you actually go through this process. I don't think I quite understood enough when I was just reading the book prior to building. Thanks very much, Mary ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <TresDoris@worldnet.att.net>
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I am building a house and have a general question concerning house wraps. I heard that there may be a problem with condensation building up between wrap and wall sheeting. Have you heard about this problem? I understand that some rotting may have occurred. And is house wrap only for drafts? I am conerned, I agreed with my builder to install tyvek house wrap. Does climate have anything to do with it because I live in Oklahoma.
thank you,
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the note.
Well, we haven't heard of that problem with Tyvek in our research. Every home buyer we've interviewed who has used the product has been happy. BUT, any product can cause problems if not properly installed. Hence, I'd call the folks at Tyvek 800-44-TYVEK and get a copy of the installation instructions. Perhaps they can shed some light on how to solve any possible condensation problems (but I doubt Oklahoma is humid enough to cause that problem.)
Let us know what you discover,
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
Your New House was a great book to read. I was looking for a book to alert me about building a home. I have land in Connecticut and plan on building in a few years. I plan to visit your web site to help me along the way. I wanted to drop you a note telling you that I enjoyed your book. I'm using my parents computer and plan on getting my own to visit your web site. Thanks. Brian Grabherr ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <etgrabherr@snet.net>
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At 10:43 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Srinath > >Hi! We looked her up in a database and found two listings--one in Sausalito >415-331-9596. That one's listed also has Heidi's number. I called the number above and spoke to Heidi. She suggested that I send her a self-addressed envelope for 55c and request the questionnaire. thank you very much for your help. I am enclosing her address for your reference. Richardson Architects 305 Caledonia Street Sausalito, CA 94965 Srinath
I will be having a house built and have a few miscellaneous questions and would appreciate any help. I read your book prior to selling my house. The house is sold and we are close to closing on a construction loan for a new house. I often refer back to your book for help.
1. Heating - I am strongly considering radiant floor heating. From everything I've read, it can be more comfortable and though 30% or so more expensive initially, pay for itself in a few years. My wife has allergies and radiant seems like a good alternative to forced air as for that. Radiant systems are also quieter. The issues I am most worried about: * Carpets - We will have carpets in some rooms. It seems the radiant equipment manufacturers avoid discussion about what is best way to handle carpeted rooms. It seems like my choices are install base board radiant heat or pay more to have the radiant tubing battle the insulation effects of the carpet. What is your opinion? * Wood Floors - I will have oak wood flooring in much of the rooms not carpeted. I've heard radiant floor heating can dry out the wood. How do I handle this? * Ceramic Floors (Bathrooms) - Our bathrooms may have ceramic tile floors, which can get cold in winter. I've heard an option is to use electrical radiant heat that can be controlled to use only when the room is used more (mornings). Is this a better direction than water tubes or radiant base boards? * Zones - What is the best strategy to figure how many zones you need? Our house will be a fairly traditional colonial with all bedrooms upstairs. What should I be asking myself to determine number of zones? * Ventilation/Humidity - Without air being forced in, should I be worring about stale air. In the summer, what is the best way to dehumidify the house? 2. Cooling - We live in southern Connecticut. The weather is not extreme in either winter or summer, generally never going much lower than 0 in winter or 90 in summer. The one question I have is what I need for cooling. I do not think we need central air. I am looking at a whole house fan as a good alternative to reduce the house temperature a few degrees on the worst days in summer. Any downside to this strategy I should be aware of? 3. Siding - To cut costs slightly, I am somewhat reluctantly going with vinyl siding. My general impression of vinyl siding is that it can look OK from a distance (assuming it was installed right and there's no obvious sagging) but up close the trim work usually looks very fake, cheap and tacky. Any opinions on how to get the best look with vinyl? 4. Windows - I will have pretty standard, stock size double hung, vinyl clad wood windows through most of the house. Where can I get a good opinion on the best value window to buy? I need sort of a Consumers Report opinion for windows. 5. General Opinions - Related to the last question, unlike computers or cars, it is difficult to get an unbiased source that compares home construction products. This includes windows, doors, cabinets, flooring, kitchen and bathroom fixtures. Again, what is really needed is a reliable unbiased source. I haven't been able to find one. Thanks. Peter Hayes Westbrook, CT ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <PHayesCT@cshore.com>
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Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 9:41:23 PM
From: DSemF14
Subj: New Home Question
To: ADFields
Hello Mr. and Mrs. Fields;
I just purchased your book because my fiance' and I are looking to build our first home. Ours will be a starter home in San Antonio,Texas. We plan to build in a neighborhood where one builder (Medallion Homes) owns the development. After looking at most of the builders in the area, we chose Medallion because it is obvious that they build at a higher level of quality. The details of even their entry-level homes are apparent, and we were very impressed with the service of their representatives. We have also heard very good things about them from friends, co-workers, etc...
We have picked the design we like from the available plans and decided on a few modifications. We decided to go with minimal upgrades from the builder so that we can do these ourselves during our ownership. We have even picked a good lot for the home. At this point, the sales person is asking for $1000 plus 1/2 the cost of the modifications we chose (standup shower in master bath and arched entry ways to the dining room) in order to start construction. These funds are applied toward closing costs later.
What concerns me is that we don't even have a loan yet! I spoke to the mortgage broker who Medallion recommends. She took some basic figures regarding debt and income and said we could afford a payment of $1100 per month. I told her I was concerned about qualifying for a loan credit-wise as both Leigh and I have had some problems in the past seven years (we both have excellent credit for the past three). Her answer was that we wouldn't have any problem.
I'm afraid to go through with the construction only to find that we don't qualify for the loan. Not only will I be severely dissapointed, but we'll loose the money we put down on the upgrades. For us, that is a significant amount.
Friends at work have said that they didn't have to put anything down until closing, even with new construction. Others have said not to do anything until I have a confirmation letter from a mortgage company stating that the loan is approved.
I am just not sure which direction I should take. In the meantime, I'm worried that someone else will come along and "steal" our lot!
Thank you in advance for your advice,
David Sem
DSemF14@aol.com
David
Hi! Thanks for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE.
Well, that's a good question--to be honest, we'd never put down money on a new home UNLESS we knew we had been pre-approved for a loan amount that is approximately needed to go through with the purchase. That's why we recommend talking with a mortgage professional (not necessarily the builder's--you can go to any source) BEFORE you set out shopping.
That's because you're bound to fall in love with a house (or lot)--and then set up for a dissappointment (and lost deposit money) if there is a loan snag. We realize you might lose that dream lot, but there are lots of new homes out there. If you lose this one, there WILL be something else down the road.
The subject of down payment is another issue altogether. Are you using a buyer's broker (real estate agent who negotiates on your behalf)? (We discuss this in Chapter 5). If so, they should advise you as to how much of (or if) a down payment is customary in the market. We ALWAYS advise placing any money into an escrow account (the agent's will do), instead of giving that money via check to the builder.
We know your excited about the prospect of buying a new home--but take some basic steps to protect yourself first.
Let us know how it goes,
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
Hi; We are in the process of having a new house built, and have run into delays because of an Energy Office program we are participating in. The program will pay the points to reduce our mortgage one percent, but we have to wait until funds become available. They are estimating this will be in the next 30 to 60 days. My question is what are your feelings on building a new house using Winter concrete? I have heard various opinions both ways. We live in Nebraska and it looks like we would be breaking ground in December or January. Thanks for the help! ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <jwelsh@les.lincoln.ne.us>
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Hi.
Thanks for reading our book, YOUR NEW HOUSE.
Well, pouring concrete in the middle of a Nebraska winter can be tricky, as you might guess. While we are not experts in concrete, there are a few issues. Since one of the main ingriendents is water, special chemicals may have to be added to the concrete to compensate for the cold temperature. I'd ask that question of your contractor--and perhaps get a second opinion from a concrete sub-contractor. There may be some tempterature threshold below which NO concrete should be poured--you might want to find out the exact parameters of that restriction.
Let us know what you discover,
alan & denise fields
authors, YOUR NEW HOUSE
I just wanted to drop you a line and thank you for writing this book. My husband and I are just beginning the process of building a home. After desperately searching the web in vain, I went to the bookstore and there it was. I've only read up to Chapter 2 and have already learned some valuable tools!
Thanks again.... we'll let you know how it comes out
Bryan and Marcy Walker
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